Victim of Fraud / Scam

[GustavoZapata]

Hello there.

I purchased a sealed iPhone XS last October 17th and I kept the phone closed till yesterday. If you wonder why I did this is because I’m not from Canada, I bought an XS because of the possibility of having dual SIM, so I waited until the closest possible release date of IOS 12.1, (Possible October 30th) which will allow this with enabled carriers. In the meantime I kept using my iPhone X with the SIM back from my home country.

At the moment of the purchase, for my bad sadly, I just verified the IMEI status at Apple.
You can imagine my frustration / surprise today when I open the box today, took out the phone and put the new SIM in it and finding no service at all except with my old
SIM only.

Further investigation I found out that the email is in fact blacklisted. Paid for two reports and found out that this device was blacklisted by Telus.

I really need some help about this because I’m already spending my life savings to stablish myself little by little in Canada and this phone was going to allow me to keep the two numbers, one to be in touch here with the government, bank, etc and get a service bill at my name and the other SIM / Number to be in touch with my family, friends, specially grandparents.

I bought the device in good faith, having not idea at all about the situation.

I have several proof and documents about all this and furthermore, the real name of the seller. I can also provide too some minor details about his banking information since I paid part of the price making a transference.
I have, photos, statements, conversations, etc.

Any kind of help would be more than welcome. In some hours too
I’m going to the police to see if I can have more help about all this.

Thanks for your time.
Ezequiel.

[Nighthawk · Accepted solution]

If you bought the phone from a third party seller, and not directly from Telus, there will be nothing Telus can do. If the third party seller you bought the iPhone from originally, purchased it from Telus, and if the seller had the IMEI blacklisted, it should not even work with your non-Telus SIM card. Only the original purchaser of the device can lift that block. If the iPhone was sealed in box and if the eSIM's IMEI was blacklisted, that's a different issue entirely and most likely means the eSIM is not being used at this time.

The iPhone XS that supports dual physical SIM cards was aimed at the Chinese market, and would not be sold here. The non-Chinese iPhone XS will physically NOT be able to use two SIM cards in North America.

Dual SIM in Canada on iPhones is an eSIM and a SIM card. Last I heard, Telus was not selling the iPhone XS with the eSIM+SIM option enabled, yet. That leaves only the SIM card slot left. Even if Telus was offering eSIM, and the phone was locked, Apple states that both plans would have to be with the same carrier.

Are you trying to use the phone with Telus or on another Canadian carrier? Did you put your old SIM card into the new iPhone before the new SIM card?

[GustavoZapata]

Just went to the police and don’t know what to do. The only option they gave me if I want to proceed it’s while pressing charges, they will seize the phone for at least one year until this guy will be processing in court.

My SIM, the one that works with the XS is from Argentina. Ironically works flawlessly doing roaming with Telus.

What I was referring as dual SIM is exactly to the use of one physical SIM and the eSIM that should work since the next Tuesday. I know that Telus won’t offer the service, that’s why I bought this unlocked phone to use it with Bell.

I don’t really have a clue how this phone was locked by Telus being sealed and unlocked.
I have all the proof to get to this guy but neither party including Telus will release information without a police order.

Sadly for me if I proceed I will loose 1400

[GustavoZapata]

Well I have two more options. They seem like a joke, but some parties told me to sell the phone AS IS overseas and the other one was to fill a civil complain at the ministry of justice.

The first option is a joke to keep doing this. Nobody cares.

[BillTelusCust]

So why on earth did you buy a phone that you could have obtained here - through a legitimate retailer - from a third party?

Never by "new stuff" from a third party unless you know the reason they are selling it, because usually the reason is that they are up to no good.

The carriers (mostly Bell) have mentioned that there is a lot of stolen new stock since the requirement to sell unlocked phones became a reality.

The bottom line is that no one is going to save you from this mistake. 

Why didn't you just go to whatever mobile company you were going to use, get the phone and esim from them and then add your Argentinian SIM card to that phone?   One may want to say "hindsight is 20:20" but you should have seen this coming.  Sorry for your loss.

[NFtoBC]

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@GustavoZapata wrote:
Well I have two more options. They seem like a joke, but some parties told me to sell the phone AS IS overseas and the other one was to fill a civil complain at the ministry of justice.

The first option is a joke to keep doing this. Nobody cares.

---

Based on the information that your Argentinian SIM works in the phone, sell it to a friend in Argentina to recoup your loss, and buy a phone from a Canadian carrier.

[GustavoZapata]

Yep. Totallly. Hurrah for the scammer. Let’s keep selling this and committing fraud. That’s what insurances are for right?

Knowing this I’d never, ever buy from a carrier. Straight from Apple.

About the reasons this kind of scam or situation even in Argentina, cowboy territory, it’s not as normal as here, specially with new phones. Something I never saw or lived before.

$250, the money I was saving, can be a basic month salary in Argentina, that’s a lot, and as I said, I was not expecting this.

Shame on you and the way you talk.

[BillTelusCust]

You've been given good advice.

Probably the blacklist only extends to Canadian carriers, the phone is likely fine in Argentina.  Sell it so someone who is not intending to use it on a Canadian carrier.

You didn't buy a phone from a carrier, you bought it from a scammer.   Ask yourself why someone would "give up" $250 on a new phone?  Most rational people would not, hence the fact that it was in fact, stolen.

Dissing people on here won't solve your problems.  Take the advice and also employ some common sense.  Argentina doesn't have scammers? I know they do.    

[GustavoZapata]

I think it’s not good advice at all to be honest.
Everyone is supporting the scammer and inciting for this to keep going and happening over and over and over. Because, you keep selling phones and getting paid too at the same time right?

Of course we have scammers in Argentina, of course, but as I said. Like this? Never seen before or heard before. First time and really it’s increidble. I read stories of people doing this with several units at the time and they go unpunished.

In Argentina to do it the same way it something impossible. The system with all the weakness and prehistoric methods won’t allow this. Even here there are notes in the media of how bad is the situation and how they benefit from the blacklisting. It’s incredible.

I’m not “dicing” anyone. I’m speaking facts, reality and saying the things the way there are. I have more than 50 files backing my case but it’s not enough for anyone. People will continue doing this no matter what because of negligence, not just only by the customer, but specially from the carriers and organizations involved.

[BillTelusCust]

You have the option not to take the advice if that's your preference.

However, telling someone you have a phone that's blacklisted in Canada and doesn't appear to be so in Argentina is not scamming, it is selling with full disclosure, that's different.

As to the existence of black lists, the only problem with the Canadian one is it should be global.  Instead, there are regional black lists by various countries.  This is to stop the sale of stolen phones.

When you said "shame on you for what you say" that's dissing someone.

People are trying to help you find a way out of an unfortunate mistake.  The solution of selling the blacklisted phone in Argentina if it works there and getting a new one here is your best option.

A lot of people might wonder why you have to maintain an Argentinian SIM card in Canada, how can that not be expensive?  

[GustavoZapata]

I have a carrier from Argentina that, while on WiFi, there are no roaming costs at all, furthermore, similar plans, roaming including, voice + data, for me is $28 a month (4Gb of data + unlimited calls over America).

Well the reason is pretty clear. It’s for me to get in touch with people from Argentina. It’s like making local calls for me and them, at the same time I need a Canadian phone number.

[NFtoBC]

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@GustavoZapata wrote:
... at the same time I need a Canadian phone number.

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If all you need is a Canadian number to receive phone calls, I suggest a VoIP service which can forward incoming calls to your Argentinian number. Cost as low as $0.85 per month plus $0.005 per minute incoming.

[BillTelusCust]

That's good that you can use WiFi Calling - it might interest you to know that Telus does not allow WiFi calling on their sim cards outside of Canada.  Their stated reasons (none of which make sense) are annoying but the fact remains, Rogers, Freedom, and some others allow WiFi calling outside of Canada and Telus/Bell do not.

[NFtoBC]

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@GustavoZapata wrote:
Yep. Totallly. Hurrah for the scammer. Let’s keep selling this and committing fraud. That’s what insurances are for right?

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It is always 'Buyer beware' when making a purchase from a third party. I doubt insurance would cover this. As for supporting the Scammer - YOU did, by making the purchase. If folks didn't buy from these people, thinking they're getting a better deal than from legitimate sources, they would cease to exist. Telus, and other carriers blacklist stolen phones to make them less attractive to thieves. 

One of the reasons I only sell / give used phones to friends is I can offer them the comfort of a personal warranty.

Knowing this I’d never, ever buy from a carrier. Straight from Apple.

You can, but often the carriers offer a discount on the phone not available when buying direct from Apple.  I'm also not sure why you are blaming the carriers for the behaviour of the scammer. 

Shame on you and the way you talk.

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I'm not sure what you expected by coming here to this community of customers. There is nothing we can do but offer advice, as we have no connection to Telus, other than being customers. If you choose not to accept the advice, that is indeed your choice

I’m not “dicing” anyone. I’m speaking facts, reality and saying the things the way there are. I have more than 50 files backing my case but it’s not enough for anyone. People will continue doing this no matter what because of negligence, not just only by the customer, but specially from the carriers and organizations involved.

---

You were given advice as to how to proceed with a police report. If you have all this information on this criminal, it should be a slam dunk. You, of course, need to provide the evidence, including the stolen property now in your possession to the police so they can proceed.

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[GustavoZapata]

Sorry, but I have direct proof that involves this person and even if I send all this over to you, you would not do anything because you don’t care. A customer of you scam you too, the difference is that you don’t get injured or harm because insurance too, same as the scammer.

As I said before, blacklisting a device should exist, but not the way you do here. I repeat there are media news, reports and thousand of people that complains about your procedure, the one that carrier have, you more than anyone are allowing this to happen.

Sadly yes, As I spoke with the police they can get him rather easy, but me? I lost the money anyways and to get back the device it would take more than a year just because I’m a possession of a “stolen device” something that could be proven that it’s not the case if you would do a quick search and comparing information with the police.

And yes I have several data including bank transaction receipt with the name of the guy, email and more. Glad to send it to you if you want, but I already know the answer.

[NFtoBC]

You keep saying 'YOU.'

None of the participants in this conversation has any relationship to Telus other than being a customer. You can send all the information to us you want, but WE can't do anything with it. It is not whether we care or not; it is that we have no ability to do anything.

You are barking up the wrong tree. No one here can do anything for you. We are not Telus emloyees.

[GustavoZapata]

Sorry my bad about that.

I thought you were an employee, my apologies. Yeah well, by you I was referring to Telus or carriers.

Regarding the phone I needed a service at my name at the same time. So it was like the perfect choice the XS because of my needs.

The Canadian Number would have been to make and receive calls within the country.

[BillTelusCust]

I don't buy phones other than from Apple direct.  I don't buy used stuff from people like that, so I doubt I'm going to get scammed that way.  It isn't that I don't care, it is that there's nothing I can do, I don't work for Telus and even if I did, from their perspective, I doubt making phones work that had been blacklisted would do anything to help the cause.

I don't like things like this going on, but really it isn't something I have to deal with.

[GustavoZapata]

Well in my case if I could get it working again it would be a pleasure to have that kind of support and help them and authorities at the same time to catch the **bleep**, but the way it is I feel like instead of getting help I’m being more punished even.

Sad, really sad indeed it is. I guess that why people chose in the end to not do anything and the cycle continues.

[BillTelusCust]

What is the alternative?  The only reason that phone doesn't work is that it wasn't paid for.

You bought a phone from someone who didn't own it free and clear. The same thing is true of cars, houses, and a lot of other things...if you pay someone who doesn't own them there's trouble.

If you happened to buy a stereo that was stolen, it would probably work. However, with something like a mobile phone, they can remotely disable it which they can and should do.

[GustavoZapata]

Totally, and I agree about what you are saying. The thing is that before I checked on Apple, it had no flags at all and it was factory unlocked.

That was my biggest surprise and what I don’t completely understand. In Argentina this is something impossible to do at all.

What I really think is that the guy committed insurance fraud. It’s not about paying or not for the device since like I said, it’s factory unlocked.