Telus WiFi calling...

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Coach
Hi folks, does anyone know why Telus chose to implement WiFi calling the way they did? I’m referring to the fact that it only kicks in when cell signal is low and then gets automatically disabled when cell signal is strong again. Rogers’ WiFi calling, on the other hand, will stay on as long as the WiFi signal is strong enough regardless of how weak or strong the cell signal is. From my own experience, it works much better the way Rogers has implemented it. With Telus, it gets enabled when I walk into my basement because my cell signal drops to 2 bars and then it shuts off when I walk upstairs when my cell signal goes back up to 4 bars. While I’m on a call when this is happening, it interrupts the call with a long 5-7 second pause while the protocol is switching (from cell to WiFi or WiFi back to cell). Sometimes I even drop calls. This does not happen with Rogers because the WiFi calling is persistent as I described before. It makes no sense why Telus would set it up the way they did.
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Rockstar

Admittedly that is a bit perplexing.  I think they should implement like Rogers did (including have it work outside of Canada) but set a bit higher threshold because I notice that Rogers switches to Wi-Fi calling even when the wi-fi is not as robust as needed (such as on certain Shaw Wi-Fi hotspots).

 

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Good Samaritan

Rogers was the first to implement wifi calling.

I agree it works well even where the wifi signal is not strong, but the system is smart enough to know if the network can handle wifi calling with your current wifi connection.

The fact is most people don't know or care much to use wifi calling. This is in part why Telus isn't focusing too much on it including the ability to use it abroad, which you can with Rogers.

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Rockstar

"The fact is most people don't know or care much to use wifi calling. This is in part why Telus isn't focusing too much on it including the ability to use it abroad, which you can with Rogers."

 

People who go places where there isn't good mobile tower coverage certainly care.  Granted, most people live in the city, have good mobile coverage, and probably don't care about much else, including roaming.  But the point of a mobile phone is to be able to use it where you go.

 

These things are still in their infancy, but there will come a time when lots of people will care about this, which is why it is worthwhile to get it working - not to mention that Telus wouldn't have to pay foreign carriers to transport the calls and data.

 

"but the system is smart enough to know if the network can handle wifi calling with your current wifi connection." Do you have data to back this up?  Because I have data which shows it does switch to Wi Fi when it should not (at least on Rogers).  The Telus phone is very reluctant to switch to wi fi no matter what the wi fi signal.  I carry two phones.  And I go lots of places, so I speak from experience.

 

 

 

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Rockstar

Anyone who has ever been on a cruise will have an appreciate for WiFi Calling.  Texing on a plan can definitely pass the time as well.  I am not familiar with the Telus implementation but T-Mobile uses the WiFi Calling that has been baked into Android since it was baked into Android.  My T-Mobile Sidekick 4G that came with Eclair and was updated to Froyo came with WiFi Calling out of the box way back when and WiFi Calling was available in devices before that one.  WiFi Calling requires some very powerful servers on the carrier side to handle demand.  I am guessing this is why they have their WiFi Calling set so passively.  

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Rockstar

I think maybe Telus just hasn't gotten around to setting up their billing system with the various IP's, some countries do not allow wi fi calling and they also need to make sure that their revenue is set up appropriately.  

 

It would be nice if someone from Telus would tell us the real reason why and when or if they will enable it globally.  There are enough dead spots where I go in the USA alone where it would be helpful.

 

Their support just says to use whatsapp or some similar program.  That may be a workaround but it isn't a good one.   I don't want to change my voicemail to say "please call me on whatsapp, thank you".

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Rockstar

My mother-in-law lives in Wyoming County, West Virginia.  Outside of Mullens, which is the closest place where there is service on AT&T and T-Mobile's domestic roaming partner.  That's still a 15 minute drive.  There are plenty of places in Canada and the US where cell coverage is non-existent where WiFi Calling could be very useful.

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Rockstar

Dwayne888 I don't know what your problem is, exactly. 

 

"Moving forward, wifi calling is completely unrelated to any billing system with IPs. It's a feature that Telus and Bell intentionally block so you use their expensive daily roaming add-on."

- have Telus and Bell specifically told you this?  If it is true, we should be told that.  if it is not true, it is merely speculation on your part.

 

As to the personal attack, I believe that is a violation of the rules of this forum, please adhere to them.  You're entitled to your opinion.  

 

 

 

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Rockstar

I wouldn't go that far with your statement.  All we can do is speculate as to why Telus restricts their WiFi Calling.  In my personal opinion, WiFi Calling shouldn't require any sort of billing aspects unless you are calling outside of what your plan covers.  This shouldn't differ from the system currently in place now and just needs the IP restriction lifted.  It is more than likely them wanting you to pay for their flat rate roaming, which I think is still way too expensive.  

 

Canadian companies like their money too much and find it hard to catch up with the times.  Greed fuels the industry, just like with the current incoming proposal for Canadian ISP's to block content that Canadian's consume via the internet that apparently is hurting Canadian intellectual properties.  Canada is Social Communism at its best.

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Rockstar

I don't know why Telus hasn't enabled wi-fi calling outside of Canada.  My speculation was based upon personal opinion.  If the support rep I called were to be believed, he did say it was something about the IP addresses, but then again, what he was saying was not making sense.

 

It would help us all if they would tell us why and if they are going to enable it, what's keeping them from doing that now.

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Rockstar

I haven't tried personally but I would say it would more than likely go further than being IP based.  Most VPN's are good enough to trick services like Netflix, YouTube, and many others.  Then again, if people are only trying free VPN's or attempting to use a VPN on a slow connection, then I can see why it wouldn't work internationally.  Until Telus actually offers WiFi Calling on a device that is actually worth having.  I won't be able to test it outside of Canada.  

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Rockstar

I have no doubt they use the location from the phone.

 

I'm sure we can agree that with respect to Netflix, the reason it works with Canadian Netflix in Canada and American Netflix in the US is due to Netflix making it that way - Netflix isn't "broken", it is "configured" to give you the intended netflix based upon your location.

 

That said, here is the reply from Telus Support as to why the Wi-Fi Calling is NOT working outside of Canada:

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"I have some clarified information here for you.  It has less to do with an agreement that TELUS has as it does with IP incompatibility between your phone and a wireless router in the US.  This is very similar to the way American Netflix is not available to customers with Canadian IP addresses"

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So here we have it, straight from Telus support (I have a screen shot of it).  It is MY PHONE.

 

 

 

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Rockstar

Telus employees usually have no clue what they are talking about.  Especially customer service!  There is no difference between wireless routers that are sold here compared to the US.  When you look at most major router manufactures, their firmware are NA and EU based, which means NA for North America and EU for Europe and the UK.  I actually have an Asus RT-AC68W that I purchased in the US along with an Asus RT-AC88U (8 ports) that was never sold in Canada.  I can also access Netflix US programming through my RT-AC68W because it runs a VPN that gives it a secure US IP address.  On occasion, I kick it over to the UK to watch some classic Doctor Who on Netflix along with Star Trek Discovery.  

 

The system in place is either very easy to get around or the information provided on how it restricts use is bull.  Which ever it is, it's either the user that doesn't know what they are doing or Telus doesn't know what they are talking about.  

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Ambassador

I think why


@BillTelusCust wrote:

I don't know why Telus hasn't enabled wi-fi calling outside of Canada.  My speculation was based upon personal opinion.  If the support rep I called were to be believed, he did say it was something about the IP addresses, but then again, what he was saying was not making sense.

 

It would help us all if they would tell us why and if they are going to enable it, what's keeping them from doing that now.



TELUS does not support wifi calling is based on their  experiences  with their extend product and CRTC requirement to provide basic 911 services even when used outside of canada see:

 

 https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2016/lt161118b.htm

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Rockstar

That's a good explanation of why Telus Extend was discontinued.  Currently Rogers offers Wi-Fi calling outside of Canada and Telus does not.  A CRTC ruling would apply to both...

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Ambassador

@BillTelusCust wrote:

That's a good explanation of why Telus Extend was discontinued.  Currently Rogers offers Wi-Fi calling outside of Canada and Telus does not.  A CRTC ruling would apply to both...


A crtc ruling should apply to both, so the question  is how does Rogers comply with the crtc ruling. Telus is complying by not enabling wifi calling outside of canada.

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Coach
I’m not sure the CRTC ruling applies to WiFi calling. When you enable WiFi calling, you have to enter an address and other details, which are specifically used for 911. The info can and should be updated wherever you use WiFi calling. There’s an entire disclaimer presented to the customer when enabling WiFi calling from his/her device, and the customer has to comply. So the onus is on the customer. Rogers, Bell, and Telus all do this. If it works in Canada, it should work overseas. So the fact that Telus doesn’t offer WiFi calling outside of Canada because of the CRTC ruling doesn’t seem like a valid reason. Rogers’ WiFi calling is hands-down the best implemented out of all Canadian carriers. They offer it on more devices, they offer it outside of Canada, and regardless of cell network signal strength (weak or strong), they keep WiFi calling connected if the user enables it rather than having it automatically disable itself when cell network signal strength is strong (like Telus does) which can oftentimes result in a poor calling experience and/or dropped calls. Furthermore, keeping customers connected to WiFi calling takes additional load off the cell network...which perhaps is why Rogers implemented it the way they did (maybe they need to alleviate network load more than Bell and Telus).
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Ambassador

@Pskippy wrote:
I’m not sure the CRTC ruling applies to WiFi calling.

 

 

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Extracted front the crtc decision Based on TELUS’ response, it does not currently provide a Nomadic VoIP 9-1-1 service for 9-1-1 calls placed through the TELUS Extend service when Wi-Fi calling is in use. 
Accordingly, the Commission concludes that with TELUS Extend, which operates as a nomadic local VoIP service when Wi-Fi calling is engaged, 

 

Looks like crtc considered telus extendo to be wifi calling

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Rockstar

I don't think that the wi fi calling outside of Canada it has anything to do with the CRTC ruling.....seems to be an extend issue.

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Coach
I agree
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Rockstar

The Rogers system works a lot like the T-Mobile USA system, which I am very familiar with.  Your address and details are required because that information is used for E911 routing.  What most don't realize with that though is, that when you call 911 over WiFi Calling, it is routed based on the address you have on file.  So...  If I call 911 while up in Canada, I will still get 911 services for Manassas, Virginia.  

 

Just so some people know just in case.  Overseas, you dial 999 for emergency services, not 911, unless you are calling from an international number.  

 

My guess is that Telus just doesn't have the servers to supply a reliable WiFi Calling service and they would rather you pay to use roaming over you using WiFi Calling to avoid being charged extra roaming fees.  

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Rockstar

Yes, I just wish they would make it work.  They have an awesome list of Easy Roam countries, a Canada/USA plan.  Having your add-ins work while roaming and the Global Wi-Fi calling are the two current missing pieces. Rogers, I believe you can call the USA from UK using the same rate as Canada, Telus can only call in the country you're in - and Canada.

 

It would also be nice if VoLTE roaming were working...

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Rockstar

WiFi Calling should apply to whatever your plan has already.  If you have USA calling and you are on WiFi, then you should be able to call any US number without any extra fees and charges.  T-Mobile's WiFi Calling, which is the same one built into Android, basically just emulates your plan with the exception that regardless of what country you are in using WiFi Calling, it treats it like you are within your calling plan.  One of the best uses for WiFi Calling is on a cruise, where using satellite phones can get incredibly expensive fast.  You can also technically use it on an airplane but airlines do frown upon that, because it impacts other passengers enjoyment of their flight.  

 

The issue with using Telus VoLTE protocals is that it doesn't use the standard system built into Android.  Because of that, it is less compatible when roaming with other carriers.  AT&T's WiFi Calling and VoLTE should be backwards compatible with Telus as long as you have your APN settings correct.  They both use a similarly gimped clusterf*ck of a system.  AT&T's WiFi Calling does not work while roaming as well.  My girlfriend found this out the hard way when she was over in Japan for a couple of weeks during the summer.  

 

Bell/Telus still seem to want to do things the monopolistic way where Rogers has learned that being a little more consumer friendly with their implemented technology works for them and their roaming partners better.  No GSM network hurts the roaming contract potential for Telus a lot.  For anything other than GSM though, the Bell/Telus network is by far superior in terms of speed, reliability, and coverage compared to Rogers.  

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Coach
Agreed with Rogers taking a more consumer friendly approach. Also, on the topic of Bell/Telus being faster, more reliable, and greater coverage...well that’s a horse of a different colour 🙂 Around my area, there’s little difference in speed. Also, I tend to either drop to one bar of 3G or lose signal completely when inside a lot of places around here (e.g. Walmart or the local community centre) with Telus. When I was with Rogers, I was always on LTE and signal felt much more stable especially inside buildings. Lastly, with Rogers upping their wireless network investment to 1.1B for 2018 (and Joe Natale saying in his financial results memo that “2018 will be a big year for network”), I think the performance gap will shrink even more.
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Rockstar

Here in parts of Toronto, being on Rogers can feel like you have cell service from a third world country.  There are parts of the downtown core and out here Scarborough-Guildwood where there is no service on Rogers.  Congestion issues and tower transmitters that are unreliable that the company doesn't want to replace, make things pretty bad.  In eastern Canada when you travel past Quebec, the Rogers network pretty much disappears unless you are in one of a few major cities.  I also found service on Rogers to be fairly bad in north Calgary and in Banff.  In older buildings and basements, the higher LTE bands Rogers have invested in over the years don't penetrate very well.  

 

Rogers can spend all of the money they want but if they don't spend it on infrastructure and where it is needed.  It won't make any difference.  Rogers also plays a little dirty with their service, by basically not allowing competitors to offer cell service inside their arenas.  Domestic roaming is free though but still.  I notice a big decrease in my data speeds when in the SkyDome because I am forced to roam on to the Rogers network for service.  You might be in an area where Rogers does have the better service, in which case, may be a better option for you.  

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Coach
No provider is perfect. There are a half-dozen spots here where there is little to no Telus signal but strong Rogers LTE. When was the last time you were with Rogers? Their network has improved dramatically recently and it’ll only get better this year. Also, you mention Guildwood, Scarborough...there aren’t any cell towers/sites from any provider in Guildwood proper. BUT, Guildwood is surrounded by 2 Rogers sites and only one Bell site...so Rogers signal in the area should be better than the others. Lastly, not sure what you mean about being forced to roam on Rogers while at the Rogers Centre. Are you with Telus? If so, you wouldn’t ever roam on Rogers as Telus no longer has a domestic roaming agreement with them (i.e. what used to be “EXT”). Both Bell (and by extension Telus) and Rogers have indoor micro sites at Rogers Centre so coverage/speed on all three major providers there should be good.
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Rockstar

I agree 100% that Wi-Fi calling should at least cover everything that you get as you are in Canada.  As far as the provider is concerned, you are. In addition, if you are getting dinged the "easy roam" fee you should also get whatever's included in that.  For example, since I am on the Canada/US Plan and have 1000 minutes included to quite a few countries, I should get all of these things when I am in: 

Canada

USA

Any country where I am on the "easy roam" plan

Any situation where I am connected by wi-fi (and it should be global)

 

It is one thing for us to have the high rates we do, but they should at least be logical and make sense as per what's allowed. 

 

Thanks for the insights and interesting/useful information.

 

 

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Rockstar

I have a personal Rogers phone and a business Telus phone, so I get a pretty good comparison.  In the "main" areas, both are good.  I did some speed tests today and Telus edged out Rogers, but both were pretty good at greater than 70 megs. (Telus was generally over 100).

 

In a lot of areas "out West", Telus definitely has the coverage advantage.

In Sask, south of where the Rogers towers are, on Sasktel, the "Rogers-EXT was only 3G  The Rogers Smart drive didn't even work.

I was told they were getting this roaming agreement fixed but I haven't heard back yet.

 

In areas where the Rogers-EXT has been on Telus, it is LTE, so it is as good as Telus except when making a call since VoLTE isn't working unless it is the Native Rogers network.

 

All in all, both carriers are reasonable for where I go in Canada, but both of them have advantages/disadvantages.

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Coach
Agreed. Overall (taking the entire country into consideration and basing the argument on total raw coverage), Bell/Telus will always win. Rogers will never have native coverage everywhere Bell/Telus do...it’s just not financially feasible for them. Remember they essentially have to do the work of two companies all on their own for the most part. Extended coverage works for the vast majority of their customers and they have good native cell site density in well-populated areas.
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Rockstar

When this started, Rogers got a head start (as Cantel) but I think they ended up competing against at least ten companies....they've had their hands full, but Telus has build quite a nice network - it is interesting how they appear native on the SaskTel Towers - though I would certainly like to see VoLTE on all of them..