Did you know we been charge extra on our billing with tax?

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ashock
Resident

I recently renewed my services with Telus and my new bill reflects the practice of charging tax before applying discounts. 

My bill from the previous month before renewal had credits that were applied before adding tax. 

The rep told me this is the way it is and it's how my bills will look like going forward, which does not make sense at all.

 

How can they charge tax on something I didn't pay for? Would also appreciate if someone was able to argue their way with Telus to charge tax on post discounted amount and the section referenced from the CRA to get this fixed. Just seems wrong what they're doing!

Lola
Rockstar

Lol @ the Rulings and Interpretations Team, Ministry of Finance -- some of the best long-winded gov-weaseling I've read in a long time.

KN1231
Neighbour

I too have been overcharged for both PST in BC and GST.  The link https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/businesses/topics/gst-hst-businesses/charge-gst... provides a good explanation between non-reimbursable and reimbursable coupons or discounts. Assuming Telus is not getting reimbursed by a 3rd party or manufacturer, they should be charging tax on only the net amount after discounts have been applied. 

 

I will log an issue with Telus, and if they refuse to correct the problem, I will contact the CRA. If anyone has any other ideas, thoughts, or solutions, please post. Thanks.

KN1231
Neighbour

Telus said that they differentiate between discounts and credits. I can see both on my statement. They calculate tax on the full price less discounts. Credits are applied afterwards. 

For example:

  • Original service amount $110
  • Less discount of $10
  • Equals $100
  • GST and PST in BC are calculated on the $100 to equal $5 and $7 respectively, for a total of $112
  • Credit of $15 is then applied
  • Customer owes $97

An accountant friend of mine said that this is legal and is at the discretion of every company as to if they consider a reduction to be a discount or a credit. The benefit to companies who do this is that they can report higher revenues, i.e. in this case $100 vs. $85 if they fully discounted the $25.

 

I have not contacted the CRA to verify this. If anyone does, please post.

BC1
Friendly Neighbour

@Lola wrote:

@Lol @ the Rulings and Interpretations Team, Ministry of Finance -- some of the best long-winded gov-weaseling I've read in a long time.



All I see is " PST is being applied on (most of) the value of the discounts. This would be incorrect ". 

BC1
Friendly Neighbour

@KN1231 wrote:

Telus said that they differentiate between discounts and credits. I can see both on my statement. They calculate tax on the full price less discounts. Credits are applied afterwards. 

For example:

  • Original service amount $110
  • Less discount of $10
  • Equals $100
  • GST and PST in BC are calculated on the $100 to equal $5 and $7 respectively, for a total of $112
  • Credit of $15 is then applied
  • Customer owes $97

An accountant friend of mine said that this is legal and is at the discretion of every company as to if they consider a reduction to be a discount or a credit. The benefit to companies who do this is that they can report higher revenues, i.e. in this case $100 vs. $85 if they fully discounted the $25.

 

I have not contacted the CRA to verify this. If anyone does, please post.


Telus can do whatever bookkeeping they want to make it look like a higher revenue, but they can't bill us tax for the price that we didn't pay for.

BC1
Friendly Neighbour

For GST rebate application, select Reason code 1C – Amounts paid in error, you can apply for rebate within two years after the day that you paid the amount in error.

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/businesses/topics/gst-hst-businesses/gst-hst-re...

 

 

For PST (BC) refund, you can apply for rebate within four years after the day that you paid the amount in error.

 

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/taxes/sales-taxes/forms/fin-355-refund-general.pdf

 

 

BC1
Friendly Neighbour

For GST rebate application, select Reason code 1C – Amounts paid in error, you can apply for rebate within two years after the day that you paid the amount in error.

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/businesses/topics/gst-hst-businesses/gst-hst-re...

 

 

For PST (BC) refund, you can apply for rebate within four years after the day that you paid the amount in error.

 

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/taxes/sales-taxes/forms/fin-355-refund-general.pdf

 

BC1
Friendly Neighbour

I posted here before why Telus wanted to charge tax on discounts. Companies used this way to claim a portion of the GST as input tax credit and reduce their costs. But these cases had been denied by the court before. Now Telus is doing it.

 

https://forum.telus.com/t5/Internet-TV-Home-Phone/Did-you-know-we-been-charge-extra-on-our-billing-w...

Lola
Rockstar

@BC1 wrote:

@Lola wrote:

@Lol @ the Rulings and Interpretations Team, Ministry of Finance -- some of the best long-winded gov-weaseling I've read in a long time.



All I see is " PST is being applied on (most of) the value of the discounts. This would be incorrect ". 


"PST is being applied on (most of) the value of the discounts. This would be incorrect, assuming Telus is not receiving reimbursement from a third-party."

 

You didn't see the rest.

Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi @Lola

Can I suggest you contact our Client Care team in regards to months where the tax calculation isn't correct on your invoice? We did previously have a billing issue for this that has since been closed and rectified. You can contact them at 310-2255

Lola
Rockstar

@Nicole-Natassha

 

I'm not having an issue. Smiley Very Happy Thank you for asking me though.

Community Manager
Community Manager

@Lola I need more coffee! My apologies!

 

@Victoria_ Mike that message was for you!

Telus-tax
Resident

I did just that yesterday Monday 23 Jan 2018. Took an hour and I was told that since October 2017 Telus has been charging gst/pst on credits, and that it was not going to change. She also said that CRA had demanded the changes!

I intend to contact the CRA to get this verified today. If not the advise I was given  was to take Telus to court. Since that is most likely the only way to get them to address this. I am going to talk with my MLA first.

 

Etown
Helpful Neighbour
Awsome feedback and information! I will keep everyone update once I get update from Telus as well to see if that match.

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Etown
Helpful Neighbour

I wish someone will call me back! I'm glad Adam did! 

vishwa
Ambassador

@Etown: You are right.  I have been with Telus for decades.  I have talked to countless CSRs from various departments.  I have had so many people telling me they would call back but never did.  Adam has been unique and has called me back 3 times already as I had issues due to someone else screwing up my account/billing.  He fixed it so that I should be good till August.  He was gracious to extend my TV offer to coincide with internet so that I only have to make changes once. In addition, he promised to call back in April just to make sure everything is OK.  The best Telus CSR that I have interacted with.

On a related topic, my experience with Telus has been that anytime I make any changes(no matter how small) things have gone wrong.  These days I try to avoid making any changes but can't avoid it completely.  Thanks to Adam, from now on the TV and Internet are in sync. Good luck.

KN1231
Neighbour

Yes they can. I just spoke with the CRA's GST Technical Inquiries Department, and credits CAN be applied after tax is calculated (similar to gift cards). The catch is that this information needs to be in the customer agreement, which it is at the bottom of the following page: https://www.telus.com/en/bc/support/article/pst-telus-bill. It says that the credit includes the credit for the taxes as well.

As a customer though, this seems like a shady business practice, and I certainly never "agreed" to it.

KN1231
Neighbour

Sorry, meant to add that it seems shady in that it seems arbitrary as to what they deem to be a discount vs. what they deem to be a credit.

BellaKiki
Resident

I'm new to this forum, but came across it after searching the internet on this exact issue.  After looking over my bills today, I noticed Telus has been charging me GST on my plan prior to the discount, since November 2017 when I made a change to my plan.  This is not how they display it on their invoices either.  They could easily get away with it if they changed how they showed the transaction on the statements.  No matter, this seems to be shady business practice on their part, nickel and diming their customers.  If you consider that there are many customers whom are not aware this is even taking place.  I've been chasing Telus for a better part of the day today, and was able to obtain a $0.25 credit for my most recent bill, but that was all they were willing to do and said that they escalate this issue. 

 

I then contacted CRA, whom was of no assistance and directed me to the CRTC, where I have made a complaint.  It will likely have no impact either as they see this as being a Revenue Canada issues since it pertains to GST charges.   Next stop, Better Business Bureau and Social Media.  Yes it's only $0.25 each month and nominal amount, but unfair to the consumer.