Sudden drop in upload speed w/ Internet 50

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Marc56
Friendly Neighbour

I've had the Internet 50 plan for the last year (DSL-bonded pair) and noticed earlier this month there was an unexplained drop in my upload speed.  For the past year I've had very stable speeds of 55 down and 11 up.  On August 9th my upload speed dropped to 7.5 Mbps while my download speed remained at 55 Mbps.  These speeds were verified using multiple websites (e.g., Telus speedtest, Speedtest.net, etc.) and verified using my SamKnows whitebox which monitors and records my download and upload speeds daily.

 

I chatted with Telus Level 1 and Level 2 tech support and went through a very lengthy process of resetting my T2200H modem to its default settings, unplugging the modem, rebooting, etc. with no improvement.  After about 2.5 hours of trying to diagnose the issue, the support agent said there was nothing wrong with my upload speed since it was within their acceptable range of between 5-10 Mbps.  After spending so much time with the support agent, I asked if there was anything else that could be done since I felt the issue wasn't resolved.  A service call was then scheduled to have technician visit my home.

 

On the day of the service call the technician spent about 5 minutes confirming my download and upload speeds using speedtest.net and then basically said there wasn't any issue with my service.  I asked what may have caused the drop in my upload speed and he sort of hinted that one of the reasons could be from an increased demand in my neighbourhood for DSL service, in addition to other things such as line noise.  He wouldn't investigate the matter any further, and we spent the next half hour talking about the expensive housing market in Vancouver.

 

While most people probably wouldn't notice a drop from 11 to 7.5 in their upload speed, I travel quite often and enjoy being able to videoconference and stream hd video from home -- which makes this a little more difficult now.  If the decrease in my upload speed is really due to Telus overselling their DSL service, is this a normal business practice?  I really hope this isn't the case, as I have always had a high opinion of them and have been a loyal customer for many years.  Has anyone else experienced something like this?  My DSL modem stats are below...

 

Model#: T2200H

Firmware Version: T2200H-31.128L.07
 
 
Line 1
Levels Downstream Upstream
Line Rate: 32640 Kbps 4140 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate: 35949 Kbps 6334 Kbps
SNR: 7.7 dB 8.9 dB
Attenuation: (DS1)24.0, (DS2)62.4 dB (US1)12.9, (US2)52.6 dB
Power: 18.5 dBm 8.1 dBm
 
Line 2
Levels Downstream Upstream
Line Rate: 27872 Kbps 4140 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate: 30697 Kbps 6003 Kbps
SNR: 7.4 dB 8.8 dB
Attenuation: (DS1)24.5, (DS2)62.5 dB (US1)12.4, (US2)52.0 dB
Power: 18.3 dBm 8.9 dBm

 

 

xl CPU Alum
CPU Alum

What is the speed test results when you are Ethernet connected via laptop/desktop?

Marc56
Friendly Neighbour

According to Speedtest.net:

 

Community Power User
Community Power User
Select the "In2Net network inc" Burnaby server then run the test. Use a hard wired connection. Then post the results.

This is the accurate server for a bonded service.

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Marc56
Friendly Neighbour

Okay...

 

 

Community Power User
Community Power User

@FredTelusTech any ideas?


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TELUS Employee
TELUS Employee

Hi Marc,

 

Were you able to double check if there's any open app/software running in the background (i.g. dropbox, torrent) while doing a speedtest.

 

Fred

Marc56
Friendly Neighbour
Hi Fred,

Yes, I double checked that no other software was running. I only had the one wired computer on. I have tested the speed using three different computers plugged directly into the DSL modem at various times beginning when I noticed the sudden change on August 9th.
RonAKA
Ambassador

I have found I can get degraded speeds with certain browsers like Internet Explorer. Have you tried a different browser?

 

I have also found that I can sometimes improve speed by going to Device Manager, Network Adaptors, Properties, Speed and Duplex, and then manually setting 100 Mbps Full Duplex, or 100 Mbps Half Duplex.

 

That said, when I have had issues it has been mainly with the download and ping time.

AntonyHall
Helpful Neighbour

This isn't really an issue with Telus, but the line between your modem and the DSLAM. Although your modem is reporting that you "should" be able to get ~12Mb, having a higher speed profile on those lines could have resulted in retrains and dropped packets.

 

Have you changed any internal wiring at all (or moved the modem) recently?

 

If you have home phone (on any of the lines) do you have an inline filter (usually lower quality) or a POTS splitter (most newer installs use these even if no POTS)?

 

My situation is a little different, as I was having repeated drops on one line, so we had to lower the profile to help improve connection stablility.

 

L1

Levels Downstream Upstream

Line Rate:34367 Kbps6076 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate:45715 Kbps7561 Kbps
SNR:8.0 dB6.9 dB
Attenuation:(DS1)14.9, (DS2)43.4 dB(US1)4.8, (US2)34.3 dB
Power:18.6 dBm5.8 dBm

 

L2

 

Levels Downstream Upstream

Line Rate:40311 Kbps2352 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate:51352 Kbps4561 Kbps (for me, this varies between ~2700-5000)
SNR:7.2 dB11.3 dB
Attenuation:(DS1)17.4, (DS2)49.0 dB(US1)5.7, (US2)38.1 dB
Power:18.6 dBm-7.9 dBm

 

All my problems could be avoided if Telus would use the closest remote DSLAM to my location (literally right across the street ~200m cable run using aerial cans) instead of the one I am on.

 

st

Marc56
Friendly Neighbour

@RonAKA  Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I have tried other browsers (Chrome, IE, and Edge) and have tried using other computers on a wired connection, so it doesn't seem as though it would be related to a software/OS issue.

 

@AntonyHall  There have been no changes to my wiring, telephones, or where the DSL modem is connected, which leads me to believe it must be something outside of my home.  When I did have the higher 11Mbps upload speed, I didn't seem to experience any issues uploading or connecting remotely from what I can tell.  There are no splitters on the two lines running from the wall jack to the DSL modem; however, I do use filters on all the wall jacks connecting to my telephones -- even though I was told these really aren't necessary any more.

 

It's interesting to hear that you were experiencing repeated drops and that lowering the speed profile resolved the issue.  How were you able to change the speed profile?  Did this require a service call and a technician making a change at the DSLAM?  

 

Too bad you can't use the nearest DSLAM, but I guess it all depends on how the phone lines are wired in your neighbourhood.  My DSLAM is approximately 400m away as the bird flies, but probably closer to 650m in distance as wired.

 

When I spoke to the technician about possible line noise between my house and the DSLAM, he said what they usually do in such cases is open up everyone's boxes in the neighbourhood to see where the noise is coming from, and they won't even begin to consider doing this until the speed drops below 50% of the advertised speed (e.g. 5 Mbps upload).

 

I guess I'll just have to wait and see if the speed gets better or worse, or until Telus decides to upgrade their DSL service to newer technologies that offer faster download/upload speeds.  I'm not holding my breath on the availability of fibre where I live since our community is very small and remote.

AntonyHall
Helpful Neighbour

Its hard to know where the noise could be coming from.

 

If Telus told you that you don't need the inline filters anymore, then, that would mean you have a POTS splitter on the line with voice.

 

For me, the system lowered my profile during it's normal updates after stability started to go.

 

A modem swap and a distribution pair swap (swap the existing ports at the DSLAM) didn't help, and the issues followed the port swap (next up was to possibly try a new port at the DSLAM if one was available)

AntonyHall
Helpful Neighbour

st

 

Update

 

I had the second port changed, and now I'm back to normal

 

Changing ports will (usually) only make a difference if one line has significantly lower stats than the other, so probably won't work for marc (as both his lines appear to be the same)

 

If you ask the correct L2 techs in a nice enough manner, they might try assigning a higher profile and see if they sync up properly. They might be able to set it to something around 5400-5800 on each line (with overhead should come out to close to 11 up)

 

L1

Levels Downstream Upstream

Line Rate:36038 Kbps6039 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate:43805 Kbps7354 Kbps
SNR:6.5 dB6.0 dB
Attenuation:(DS1)16.2, (DS2)44.8 dB(US1)5.4, (US2)35.4 dB
Power:18.6 dBm4.3 dBm

Clear

L2

Levels Downstream Upstream

Line Rate:40746 Kbps6240 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate:51756 Kbps7557 Kbps
SNR:7.1 dB6.0 dB
Attenuation:(DS1)16.0, (DS2)47.6 dB(US1)5.4, (US2)37.8 dB
Power:18.6 dBm1.9 dBm

Clear

Highlighted
Marc56
Friendly Neighbour

Hmm... well as of this morning, everything seems to be back to normal.  So it seems the system has updated my profile.

I wonder how often the system updates the profile. Fingers crossed... let's hope it stays like this!

AntonyHall
Helpful Neighbour

Marc,

 

did the stats change?

Marc56
Friendly Neighbour

Yes, my stats did change..  the attainable line rate decreased (for upload); however, the actual line rate increased?

 

 

 

 

T2200H
Firmware Version: T2200H-31.128L.07
 
Line 1
Levels Downstream Upstream
Line Rate: 32640 Kbps 5970 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate: 36091 Kbps 6135 Kbps
SNR: 7.8 dB 6.0 dB
Attenuation: (DS1)23.9, (DS2)62.2 dB (US1)12.8, (US2)52.4 dB
Power: 18.6 dBm 8.9 dBm
 
Line 2
Levels Downstream Upstream
Line Rate: 34628 Kbps 5834 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate: 34717 Kbps 5995 Kbps
SNR: 6.0 dB 5.8 dB
Attenuation: (DS1)24.5, (DS2)62.4 dB (US1)12.3, (US2)51.8 dB
Power: 18.6 dBm 8.9 dBm

 

AntonyHall
Helpful Neighbour

maybe during one of the system updates, it wasn't able to train higher, then the system didn't try to change it for a while to verify stability?

 

That's all I can think

Most Helpful
Upcraft
Advocate

I have heard that Telus has a system that will automatically adjust your profile to something slower if your error rates exceed some threshold over a period of time.  I believe the statistics are collected on a daily basis but you would need to maintain a consistent trend of low errors for a few days before it might decide to increase your speed again.  Your modem will do it's best to stay connected at the best possible speed, but it can be pretty awful at keeping a consistent connection if it's right at the border line of what is possible on your line so rather than have every line manually tweaked it's constantly tweaking the lines for a balance between speed and consistency.

 

The attainable line rate you see on the modem isn't a great indicator of your maximum.  It does a very crude calculation based on the current power levels but does not account for real world line condition issues.  It used to be worse a few firmware versions back.  Just know it's not a number you should trust.

 

In almost all cases it's usually going to pick the best speed for you.  But if there was one particular day when a neighbours line was particularly noisy and causing big crosstalk issues on you then it could drop your speed a step or two for a bit.  If that was a temporary condition it should resolve in 3-7 days. If your line was right at the border line of working and any little hiccup knocks you offline for a bit while the modem retrains then it would be a good thing they drop your speeds otherwise your internet would be up and down constantly causing more grief than a slightly slower speed test result.  As long as the temporary problem is gone it goes back to what you were used to before and you don't even need to call in.  If you do call in the front line people on the phones have never had the ability to tweak individual lines from what I know.  They always need to get someone else to assist when needed, usually the time they "put you on hold for a minute or two" is when they are on the phone or chat with someone with access to make changes to profiles.  

 

In the case of the original poster, they are borderline numbers there.  When your attenuation number for the final speed bin (DS2 and US2) go over 60/50dB it's starting to get close to the point of failure. For the downstream (DS) number when you reach about 65dB attenuation is at the point where the noise on the line starts to exceed the signal.  Yours shows 62.2dB and 62.4dB.  Getting very close to that threshold of failure where the higher frequencies used by your VDSL profile no longer arrive intact at the other end.  I'm not positive what the attenuation numbers for the upstream are when it starts to fail, likely it's more important to see what the modem on the other side measures in that case as it's the receiver and not the sender where you need to check.  

 

So any little hiccup can drop you.  Neighbours lines causing crosstalk, your line getting a bit wet at a cross connection causing some temporary resistance, a hum on your line any time you run some appliance on a plug with a weak ground fault feeding back to the grounding block at your electrical panel, who knows.  The fact both lines show similar attenuation likely means you have good inside wire as it's really consistent between the two so it's not likely anything you can really improve on.  The physics of distance and signal propagation over a thin copper wire are 99% of your result.  So any little 2% signal glitch could be enough to bump you down a bit for a while.  My suggestion, watch for fluctuation on the attenuation numbers, ignore the "attainable" figure as it's junk data.

 

 

 

 

 

Marc56
Friendly Neighbour

@Upcraft Thanks for the detailed explanation!  Yes, I think that is exactly what is happening.  

 

After a couple of days at the higher speeds, I am now back to the slower upload speed that I reported in my original post (7.8 Mbps Up).  I happened to witness exactly when the slower speed profile was applied.  The modem rebooted itself a couple of times on it's own a little after midnight September 8th, where my upload speed dropped to 9.5 Mbps.  The following day it dropped further, to where it is now at 7.8 Mbps.  My download speed has remained consistent at 55.5 to 55.8 Mbps.  

 

 

 

T2200H
Firmware Version: T2200H-31.128L.07

 

Line 1
Levels Downstream Upstream
Line Rate: 32640 Kbps 4140 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate: 36572 Kbps 6229 Kbps
SNR: 7.8 dB 8.9 dB
Attenuation: (DS1)23.9, (DS2)62.0 dB (US1)12.7, (US2)52.2 dB
Power: 18.5 dBm 8.1 dBm

 

Line 2

Levels Downstream Upstream
Line Rate: 31533 Kbps 4140 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate: 33176 Kbps 6127 Kbps
SNR: 7.1 dB 8.9 dB
Attenuation: (DS1)24.4, (DS2)62.1 dB (US1)12.3, (US2)51.6 dB
Power: 18.4 dBm 8.4 dBm

 

So I am back to where I started.  It's a little frustrating to have such fast and stable download speeds, but slow and inconsistent upload speeds.  I guess I'll just have to wait and see if anything changes!

 

Marc

Glacier21
Resident

I am experiencing a similar issue however, my lines are closer to the noise floor.  I travel frequently and rely on faster upload speeds to support applications like Skype.   I would gladly sacrifice download speed for more upload speed. I am not really interested in TV and if Optik TV were not a requirement for bonded lines I wouldn't have it. 

 

Line 1 Levels Downstream Upstream

Line Rate:27869 Kbps2526 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate:29190 Kbps3874 Kbps
SNR:6.6 dB7.8 dB
Attenuation:(DS1)26.4 dB(US1)10.3, (US2)58.6 dB
Power:18.6 dBm8.8 dBm

 

Line 2 Levels Downstream Upstream

Line Rate:27872 Kbps2526 Kbps
Attainable Line Rate:29785 Kbps3980 Kbps
SNR:6.5 dB8.4 dB
Attenuation:(DS1)26.3 dB(US1)10.2, (US2)59.3 dB
Power:18.4 dBm8.9 dBm

 

I would like to see the line rates working closer to the downstream SNR of 6.5 dB.  The lines use to connect at a minimum of 3000 Kbps now they never go above 2526 Kbps.  The line rates are oddly identical as apposed to the downstream rates, regardless of powering down the modem for  a while.  I have had a technician on site and he was able to do some sort diagnostics that seemed to compress the 3 - 7 day wait and see automation.  Indeed the lines connected over 3200 Kbps each and were happy all day.  I had no issues with the internet service or Optik TV service during this period and then I observed the next day the lines dropped back down to to 2526 Kbps.  This look like an artificial cap on upload speeds.  They have stayed the same for three months.   I find this truly frustrating, I accept this may be an inherent technical limitation,  However, I would like the lines tweaked and determine if, I the customer find the service acceptable.

 

Shaw's 150/15 service is available at my location and the new customer pricing over two years is almost a no brainier.  The Shaw service is half the price I pay for 50/10 service for one year.  I am really tempted to switch to Shaw and abandon Telus after 20 years of being a DSL customer.  I am just concerned about a two year contract commitment with Shaw and then find the service is not what I expected.

 

Telus needs to accelerate their fiber to the home deployment or install some more DSLAMS, after all my last bill indicated the cuts to my bundle discounts were because of network improvements.