Did you know we been charge extra on our billing with tax?

SOLVED
Helpful Neighbour

Did you know we been charge extra on our billing with tax?

Hi Everyone

 

Have you check notice the charges on tax is wrong? we been getting charge extra for the past few months! If you haven't you should and let Telus hear your voice.  They told me was system error and should be resolve but they haven't.  You should double check especially if you live in Alberta. 

Etown

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION
Friendly Neighbour

I just spent two hours with Telus. Telus is calculating the tax based on the original price rather than the discounted price. 

 

My previous internet bill was $60 and reduced to $45 since September. The taxes are still calculated based on $60.

 

Companies charged customers GST on the full amount of the telephone bill before applying the billing credit, because they tried to claim input tax credits (ITCs) for the billing and reduced their expenses.

 

 - CRA's coupon rules (ETA paragraph 181(3)(b)) allows a company to claim ITCs for the tax fraction (for example, 13⁄113) of a coupon. However, the credits on the phone bill are NOT COUPON.

 

- CRA's rebate rules (ETA section 181.1) also allows a company to claim ITCs for the tax faction of a rebate. However, the credits are not rebate and they are simply a discount offered when customers signed up for a two-year plans.

 

Our tax system imposes tax on the value of the consideration for the supply, ensuring tax is exigible on the net consideration an end consumer pays. The companies charged tax before calculating the discount violate our tax acts. 

 

Talking to online customer representatives and phone representatives won't help.  I had tried to find an email address so I can email to Telus. But no, they don't have one. Hope the Telus employees can see the posts here and find a solution for us.

 

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78 REPLIES 78

I recently negotiated a 50% discount on my phone, tv, and internet but they still calculated the taxes on the full amount. Telus reps say call CRA and I get no help from them. Can this be correct?

Whether taxes are added before or after a % discount, the final amount is the same. If you add 12% tax to 100.00, then subtract 5%, you get the same total as if you subtracted 5% from 100.00 then added 12% tax. If the discount is a coupon, or  a set dollar amount, then where tax is applied is dependent on if the amount is reimbursable to the merchant or not.

 

I don't know if this helps anyone here. It would be helpful to those of us trying to help if we could see the bills, discounts, itemization, etc., in real time.

 

 

Helpful Neighbour

I'm glad we have a discussion here and got few people attention! 1) Telus rep said they'll get back to me but I still haven't from them over few weeks now. I spoke to CRA and they agree that tax should be calculate on the final amount not pre-caluclate. 2) my charge from previous few months is different range from $144 to $123 but tax is still the same at $8! Make any sense?? Discount or no discount ! federal tax is only 5% and in alberta there is no pst! What is 5% for 132 ? not 8.32

I am also waiting to hear from the Telus rep(who said he will look into it and call back).  In my case it is about 3-4 dollars more than it should be.  It only started in September.  I have a feeling that this issue might have affected people who made some change in the account(such as upgrade, change tv package, add a service or some other) during August-September time period.  Otherwise, we would have heard from many more people.

I am going to wait another week and then contact that Rep again to see what is happening.  By that time I will have received another bill.

I agree - it seems to only have affected people that made a change to their plan during that time period. It seems to be a glitch in the system but good luck convincing any rep over the phone/any specialist they consult with, that the tax is being calculated incorrectly...

Helpful Neighbour

totally agreed with you Vishwa! It happened for me as well starting August......calling Telus is such a time wasting. It took me over an hour to reach a rep on a slow day or busy day!

December bill is out tax calculation issue persists Robot Sad

 

New charges

Internet $60.43

Other charges and credits -$6.00

PST $5.35

GST / HST $3.67

Total new charges....................................................................$63.45

 

Well at least previous rep left a note on account last month so wasn't that difficult to get credited back again.

My Telus rep called yesterday and they are still looking into it. I am sure it will be resolved.  He said he will call me back after the next bill to make sure things are sorted out. He gave a credit of $10 for the last 3/4 months.  

Friendly Neighbour

I just spent two hours with Telus. Telus is calculating the tax based on the original price rather than the discounted price. 

 

My previous internet bill was $60 and reduced to $45 since September. The taxes are still calculated based on $60.

 

Companies charged customers GST on the full amount of the telephone bill before applying the billing credit, because they tried to claim input tax credits (ITCs) for the billing and reduced their expenses.

 

 - CRA's coupon rules (ETA paragraph 181(3)(b)) allows a company to claim ITCs for the tax fraction (for example, 13⁄113) of a coupon. However, the credits on the phone bill are NOT COUPON.

 

- CRA's rebate rules (ETA section 181.1) also allows a company to claim ITCs for the tax faction of a rebate. However, the credits are not rebate and they are simply a discount offered when customers signed up for a two-year plans.

 

Our tax system imposes tax on the value of the consideration for the supply, ensuring tax is exigible on the net consideration an end consumer pays. The companies charged tax before calculating the discount violate our tax acts. 

 

Talking to online customer representatives and phone representatives won't help.  I had tried to find an email address so I can email to Telus. But no, they don't have one. Hope the Telus employees can see the posts here and find a solution for us.

 

View solution in original post

The comment was deleted as I posted it twice by mistake.

This is INCORRECT. 

 

"Loyalty credits" added to your bill include applicable taxes. Check your paper bill... you will see a * next to the credit, and the footnotes confirm that it includes tax. 

 

One example provided on this board was from a consumer who thought the credits they received from TELUS cut their bill in HALF. So, if their bill was previously $160, they were expecting a new bill of $80. If that consumer is in BC, the value of the credit was actually $71.43. The other $8.57 is sales tax. So, instead of passing on the savings to the consumer, the Provincial and Federal government tax revenue is protected. 

 

If that consumer's bill was actually reduced to $80, they'd only be paying $9.60 in sales taxes, but they're continuing to pay $19.20 each month. That is $115.20 every year, which would pay for more than a month of your TELUS bill

 

Why does TELUS process these customer loyalty tactics in a way that protects revenue for the Government? Who knows. But, I just had my Rogers Wireless monthly plan reduced from $105 to $85. I pay taxes based on the lower amount. 

Curious has anyone tried a CCTS complaint regarding this "new" tax practice...have some extra time myself doing one right now.

 

**UPDATE** Not the response I was hoping for Smiley Sad

 

Thank you for contacting the Commission for Complaints for Telecom-television Services (CCTS). The CCTS is an independent agency with a mandate to receive, facilitate the resolution of, and, if necessary, resolve eligible customer complaints relating to certain retail telecommunications and retail residential subscription television services.

The scope of the CCTS' mandate is set out on our website: http://www.ccts-cprst.ca

Unfortunately, this matter is not an eligible complaint within the meaning of our Procedural Code and is therefore not within the scope or mandate of the CCTS.

We have reviewed your complaint about how the taxes are being applied on your account. It is our assessment that the subject-matter of your complaint relates to general operating practice(s)/policy matters. Further to Section 4.3 of our Procedural Code, the CCTS is not able to issue Recommendations and Decisions that directs or requires a service provider to change their operating practices and policies.

Therefore, the CCTS cannot process your complaint. The Procedural Code can be found at: https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/codes-stats-and-reports/procedural-code/

We have forwarded your complaint to your PSP for their information.

If you have any questions or concerns regarding your complaint, or anything contained in this correspondence, please do not hesitate to contact us.

CCTS

P.O. Box 56067 Minto Place RO

Ottawa, ON

K1R 7Z1

1-888-221-1687

Sincerely,

CCTS Assessment Team

Hi,

 

I think you complained to the CRTC but they rejected it.

This was about the taxes on the credit.

I wonder if you noticed how the numbers don't add up. This would have nothing to do with policies.

There is a site for easy calculation, I hope it's correct, but the GST number usually right on the PST never.

http://www.calculconversion.com/sales-tax-calculator-british-columbia-gst-pst.html

I include 3 bill, some with other without credit for calculation.

Also, after negotiating a discount, the Telus rep. gives the quote "this is your total + taxes" (I have it email) so original $100 with discount $50. So you total is $50+taxes. which is not true! its $100+t -discount. very different number.telus1.PNGtelus2.PNGTelus3.PNG

... update

 

I was informed by a rep. that this is how the calculation is:

"GST - ($76+$38= $114 x 5%) = $5.7

PST - ($76+$13= $89 x 7%) = $6.23

(note: For TV, the first $25 is exempted from PST, thus we take $38-$25, and only the remaining $13 is PST taxable)

 

We take the above total - $76 + $38 + $5.7 + $6.23 = $125.93, then subtract the discount of $50 against this total. Coming to your bill total of $75.93 "

Simply shows how hard is to make sense of our bill.

I try and got the same message

I am having this issue as well. After speaking with a Telus Rep, they are charging the GST on the pre-discounted price. I didn't think this was allowed, but the Telus Rep told me it was and that is what they are doing. 

 

Guess I need to read the tax code....

Helpful Neighbour

still haven't hear anything back yet

Friendly Neighbour

For GST rebate application, select Reason code 1C – Amounts paid in error, you can apply for rebate within two years after the day that you paid the amount in error.

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/businesses/topics/gst-hst-businesses/gst-hst-re...

 

 

For PST (BC) refund, you can apply for rebate within four years after the day that you paid the amount in error.

 

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/taxes/sales-taxes/forms/fin-355-refund-general.pdf

 

Helpful Neighbour

Awsome feedback and information! I will keep everyone update once I get update from Telus as well to see if that match.

Virus-free. www.avg.com

I am writing this to update as I said I will.  Adam from Telus called me back as promised and explained what is happening.  He had spent a lot of time investigating this issue and his answer matches the observation on this thread.  Basically, if you look at your bill and there is a credit such as loyalty credit etc. and if there is a * in front of that, that is subject to GST. That is the way they calculate. If I calculated based on this new info, the number adds up right.

 

I had a few other(unrelated to tax) issues with my bill and Adam fixed them as well.  Overall, my experience with Telus has been great with respect to the quality of services but mixed when it comes to the interaction with the CSRs and I always felt that billing (notwithstanding the recent GST calculations) has been their Achilles heel--you make a small change and the system changes many things and you call back three more times to get it fixed. Adam fixed so many of those for me over the months and I would like say a Big Thanks to him publicly here. Interacting with someone like him will make me stay with Telus a lot longer for all my three services.